Our God is a God of order. He has established order and laws which govern all of creation. I can not even begin to list all the benefits that come to people because God has made the earth and its creatures to follow certain patterns and laws. I doubt anyone would disagree that the laws which govern creation are good ones and that they are, in fact, for our good. For the most part, we don’t question these things. Furthermore, we probably like and enjoy all of them. Why is it, then, when it comes to God’s order for the church, women want to overthrow the system?
I suppose the desire of prominent positions within the church is a natural growth from the feminist movement which began decades ago. I wasn’t around at the time, but my understanding of the feminist movement is that it began with women’s desire for sexual freedom. Did you know that ancient pagan goddess worship and child sacrifice go hand-in-hand? Many of the ancient sites and shrines are also the very places that children were sacrificed. I do not believe it is a coincidence, then, that the 1970’s saw women exalting themselves, leaving their homes, and garnering their “right” to abort their children. Solomon was right. There is nothing new under the sun. What we might consider new developments in our day are actually centuries old practices dressed in new clothes. I’m afraid the sexual freedom and reproductive rights aspects of women’s lib are important to mention because of where I see some churches moving these days.
For example, the Ebenezer Lutheran Church in San Francisco, dubbed “Her Church,” proudly describes what they believe about “Mother God.” Go here, if you can stomach it. It’s a short video that shows this group of old and young women, and a couple of men, participating in communion, Sunday worship, and other activities. There are interview clips with congregants and the priestess as well. The website (link above) gives more detailed information. I find it fascinating. They get most of their false theology from the Bible. More specifically, from the pagan cultures the Israelites were supposed to kill, like the worship of Asherah. One retreat activity has the women sculpting their own Asherah goddess! The website also features how to create your own altar and get your own rosary complete with goddess idol. I hope you’re not laughing; it is not my intention to be funny. Did you notice the very young girls being led astray?
And don’t assume that this is only found in strange places like San Francisco. How many women do you know who have read Stasi and John Eldredge’s book, Captivating, Unveiling the Mystery of a Woman’s Soul. It recently passed the 1 million copies sold mark! It is incredibly popular in my neck of the woods. In it, Stasi and John posit that women want three things: to be romanced, to be caught up in an adventure, and to reveal beauty. One of my biggest problems with their ideas comes when Stasi encourages the reader to consider one of her favorite romantic movies, put herself in the role of the beauty, and Jesus in the role of the dashing, strong, rescuer. Viola! Your boring relationship with Jesus just got turned up a notch! Right? Wrong! Frankly, her ideas about a romantic relationship with Jesus turned my stomach about as much as the ELC ladies in the video mentioned above. The Eldredges also encourage playing favorite love songs, other secular songs, or “worship” songs, as though Jesus were singing them to you. It is a gross turning of the tables on who is worshiping who.
There is wisdom behind God’s order through Paul that women are not to teach men. The teachers in the church are to be elders (men) who have proven (not new converts) faithful with God’s word and shown the ability to teach. Women can teach children. Women can teach younger women how to take care of their homes and care for their children and love their husbands, etc. Read Paul’s letters to Timothy and Titus. Sadly, those are the very things women don’t want to teach. Why not? Because many women have bought the feminist lie that those subjects are beneath them. Women want to teach weightier subjects like Beth Moore or Kay Arthur or Joyce Meyer. I don’t know how many friends I’ve heard say things like, “I wish I were like her.” There is a woman in my town who started her own speaking ministry. A few years ago, I heard her speak and the hostess introduced her with, “look out, Beth Moore!” That’s not the point I wanted to make. My point is that these women, whether they mean to or not, are teaching men in their conferences, on their videos, and in their classes at church. In turn, many women, certainly not all, see this and believe it is okay. This is wrong. Whether what they’re teaching is correct or not is beside the point.
Karl has told me that anytime I am listening to a woman teach I need to be careful because women have a tendency to allow their emotions to cloud their judgement. He’s right. I heard one woman teach that the doctrine of election does not really mean that God chooses who will be saved. She based this on her own experiences with God and “what I know of His heart.” She just refused to believe it because of the way it made her feel. I heard another woman teach that Paul’s instruction that women are not to teach men doesn’t say what it seems to say. She quarreled a moment with the text and the context, only to end with, “You just have to go back to the original languages.” (Exalting herself before the rest of us who don’t know Biblical Greek).
Paul’s teachings concerning women in the church are hard for us 21st century women to swallow. As John Stott wrote in Decisive Issues Facing Christians Today, “All attempts to get rid of Paul’s teaching on headship (on grounds that it is mistaken, confusing, culture-bound or culture-specific) must be pronounced unsuccessful. It remains stubbornly there. It is rooted in divine revelation, not human opinion, and in divine creation, not human culture. In essence, therefore, it must be preserved as having permanent and universal authority.” God’s word is not a garment we outgrow, only to throw out with last year’s fashions.
Submitting to His authority, whether it be in our homes or our churches, is a position of safety for women, for the good of the church, and for the glory of the Gospel.


6 responses to “The Discipline of the Church”
I realize this post could get me in some hot water. I know that many women enjoy the Bible studies by Beth Moore and Precept studies by Kay Arthur. I do not mean to imply that I think women should not participate in those studies, or that I think those women are “bad.” They are just examples of women who, whether they mean to or not, teach/preach to men. I also know that these two ladies have tried to avoid teaching men. If a man chooses to put himself under a woman’s authority, what can she do?! I don’t know much, if anything, about Joyce Meyer other than I saw lots of men in her audience (when we had cable).
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Leslie I think this post was great. The Bible is very clear that women are not to have authority over, or teach men. How can others argue that this is just a past cultural issue when the roles of men and women are rooted in creation? I’ve yet to see or hear an argument for women in leadership/preaching roles over men where scripture has not been *grossly* twisted and misinterpreted.A former pastor of mine often noted that in churches where women are allowed to have pastoral authority it becomes a slippery slope toward questioning the authority of scripture in other important areas.
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Did you read Tim Challies review of the latest Eldredge book…..its worth a read (the review NOT the book!). I read 2 pages of The Sacred Romance and an interview in CT and that was enough for me!
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Thanks, I think this was a great post too! I completely agree w/you about women teaching men and also what Karl told you about women teaching. I haven’t read any books by Eldredge, but I don’t plan to from what you and others have said.
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Absolutely true! Thanks for your wonderful wording of such an important subject! I agree and we are very like-minded!!!Kim
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This was a great post, Leslie! Thanks for taking a good stand on a hard topic.I’ve been wrestling a lot lately about these types of issues– over at my site and in real life. Up until now I had always just accepted the “it’s just cultural” line of thinking– but even my wife wondered how we could get that out of the passage.I have been meaning to have a good talk with my pastor about these topics– not that we have women in leadership positions, but that seems to be the only one of the set that we follow.Thanks again.
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